AI Assistant
Transcript
00:05:890Michele De Carli: So we started yesterday with the
00:16:290Michele De Carli: shit.
00:22:970Michele De Carli: So we started looking at the water based systems. Okay, so we might work with the natural or forced ventilation. Okay? And this is how we can.
00:39:540Michele De Carli: So here you have a a general snatch of what we are going to see. Okay, now from from today to the end of the course. We can see that we have here the
00:58:643Michele De Carli: here. This is sketch. You can see, these are the terminal units. I would like to remark
01:07:390Michele De Carli: that usually you can newborn
01:16:700Michele De Carli: with yours is issues since then
01:25:280Michele De Carli: are usually very sweet.
01:35:220Michele De Carli: And there is, you can have different ways to name that. Okay, the the basically they waterproof picture. Okay?
01:50:626Michele De Carli: So here we can see some of the like a sketch. Of course we have to drive the motor into the
01:59:960Michele De Carli: to the terminal unit or the measure system, and so for doing that you need to.
02:06:570Michele De Carli: So we use a pump, which is here. Okay, the pump could be also
02:15:350Michele De Carli: drawn in this way. Okay, so the pump is
02:21:380Michele De Carli: provided the pressure in order to reach the terminal unit and to exchange the heater with the room.
02:28:940Michele De Carli: You can see, then, that we have 2 different
02:33:689Michele De Carli: systems. Okay, we have. I'm sorry. This is boiler. Okay, so usually
02:44:70Michele De Carli: system. So up to 10 years ago, let's say.
02:48:561Michele De Carli: we had a boiler, usually natural gas driven boiler right in the gmail.
02:57:510Michele De Carli: We did the boiler. We produce the water, they heat water
03:01:860Michele De Carli: with the chiller. We are cooling the water. Okay? So the the the boiler is providing heat. Okay? And the chiller is instead extracting the heat and will cool down.
03:19:820Michele De Carli: Okay, sorry.
03:25:30Michele De Carli: Yes, of course we can. What I wanted to say is at least that if you use a reversible
03:36:550Michele De Carli: which is achievement, which can work also as heating. Okay? And in that case, you.
03:43:520Michele De Carli: we not have the boiler. As far as you are able to provide the full load of. Okay, in this position you can still have some support hybrid system or dual source systems. Okay?
04:00:750Michele De Carli: Which means that you can have a heat pump and a boiler.
04:06:130Michele De Carli: So we will. We will see when and how you have to select either or okay.
04:15:820Michele De Carli: So what I want, anyway, to underline is that here we have the generation system for the
04:25:720Michele De Carli: peeled water. Here we have the generation system for the warm water. They can be just one system.
04:34:17Michele De Carli: You can see that we have in this case, one main. Okay, one main secret for the initial systems. Okay.
04:48:760Michele De Carli: which is going to the initial system. Then
04:52:470Michele De Carli: you can see in the then you have
04:59:570Michele De Carli: you, we can see that we have another. Let's say we have
05:03:100Michele De Carli: other devices. Okay, and orange. Okay.
05:09:880Michele De Carli: these are ways. Okay, these are ways to no.
05:16:678Michele De Carli: Comfortable and switch from one. Okay? So as you can see, we have one
05:24:870Michele De Carli: pipe which is providing the water for the emission system. We have a valve. Okay, which is basically
05:32:620Michele De Carli: in this case, will work for either providing water into the initial system or to
05:41:836Michele De Carli: bypass the emission system. Okay?
05:45:419Michele De Carli: Okay. So since we have 1, 2 and 3 ways, this is a 3 way. Vat, okay? So that we, we see
05:55:500Michele De Carli: how it? 3 way valve. Okay, this
06:02:250Michele De Carli: on top means that in this case is an electric drive system.
06:08:850Michele De Carli: There is a a counter. Okay?
06:12:710Michele De Carli: Oh, all the same, I'm not certain.
06:16:360Michele De Carli: Roo's son.
06:17:690Michele De Carli: Specifications in order to either go into the initial system or
06:26:00Michele De Carli: okay. So when you see something like that. This is this means that you have a a certain. It's a it's electric driven. Ng, okay to
06:39:569Michele De Carli: to close one circuit and open the other, and vice versa. Okay? In this case you can see that these are instead not electrically driven. Okay? So of course in heating. If.
06:57:50Michele De Carli: as we can see here,
07:06:560Michele De Carli: you have the water going and the water then is
07:12:80Michele De Carli: releasing the heat into the space. Okay, thanks to the emission system, and then we'll then go back. Okay, and
07:20:640Michele De Carli: it will go here. Of course, in heating we are going with these 3 waves. Okay, we are opening the circuit for going into the boiler.
07:31:320Michele De Carli: Okay? Then heating up and go back to the to the building. Okay, sorry
07:37:530Michele De Carli: I was doing this. So then it's go to to into the building in summer.
07:43:460Michele De Carli: Then we are going to instead switch.
07:47:530Michele De Carli: So we are going to close this circuit here, and then we will go into the chiller, which will cool down the water.
08:00:920Michele De Carli: which will, of course, instead go into this. Yes, of course.
08:06:430Michele De Carli: these units stand by the pool. Okay.
08:10:510Michele De Carli: okay? So in this case you have, you're using the same file, 2 units and then same time
08:25:750Michele De Carli: returning the water. Okay into the system. Okay, so this is a tool.
08:33:330Michele De Carli: 5. Okay? So you have one type to buy a month.
08:40:80Michele De Carli: And I don't work.
08:44:668Michele De Carli: And by the way, you can see, these 3 waves
08:50:20Michele De Carli: has to be manually like changed
08:54:90Michele De Carli: once you can print out it teach from.
09:00:140Michele De Carli: So that means that, you know. For instance, here we from mid of October to middle entry. So that means that the middle of October you switch off the boiler, and you have one month to pay
09:15:773Michele De Carli: you close the secret for the boiler. Open the secret for that right
09:22:00Michele De Carli: manually. You will switch these 3 waves so you will close this circuit in May, and you will work on the cooling system. Of course, also this one here. Okay.
09:36:530Michele De Carli: so you alternative
09:40:360Michele De Carli: work over the year as heating or cooling. And this is the 2 way, 2 pipes. Okay?
09:49:530Michele De Carli: Yes.
10:07:730Michele De Carli: But I think that we will do. We will look at that at the end of the course.
10:12:130Michele De Carli: Okay.
10:13:240Michele De Carli: Okay, hey? Yes, you can wait.
10:17:730Michele De Carli: Yes.
10:22:500Michele De Carli: the secret, and there will be.
10:27:230Michele De Carli: And the device which is responsible for the can you repeat this reference or the
10:36:330Michele De Carli: to limit. Okay? Or, to say, allow a.
10:42:00Michele De Carli: The leader in.
10:44:860Michele De Carli: I believe that you have the the
10:49:660Michele De Carli: the increase of volume of the water inside of the ship week, because it will work from
10:56:200Michele De Carli: 5 degrees in in.
10:58:720Michele De Carli: We conditions up to 40, 45, 50 degrees in between. Of course, the water inside of the pipes. We
11:06:750Michele De Carli: expand that, and you need something which
11:10:130Michele De Carli: this yes, but this is something that we are going to see.
11:14:390Michele De Carli: Okay, now, what I want to set to tell you. Okay, I will erase everything. Okay. But basically, what we are going to do. Cat is, of course.
11:26:380Michele De Carli: we can subdivide the the system into, let's say, 3 elements. Let's say, okay, so one element are these ones. So the terminal units
11:40:180Michele De Carli: or emission systems. Okay, then we have another system. Okay, I will highlight in green.
11:55:910Michele De Carli: Okay, this one. So in this case, you can see, this is the hydronic silly quit.
12:05:730Michele De Carli: Okay, of course, the terminal units are somehow part of the inter hydraulic system.
12:14:480Michele De Carli: 1st of all, we need to select the we shall use
12:20:250Michele De Carli: how we decide how we choose the submission units you today, big power
12:27:507Michele De Carli: and sorry the the peak power. So we are going to give size system to select the systems in order to have 20 degrees.
12:40:60Michele De Carli: Okay? Of course, in order to get this power.
12:44:880Michele De Carli: then we will need to decide the day
12:49:430Michele De Carli: water temperature difference across these systems and the mass flow rate. Okay, in this system. So they were all mass flow rate.
12:58:630Michele De Carli: And then we have to check that.
13:01:540Michele De Carli: I did enough all this information.
13:08:361Michele De Carli: That's okay, so we are. We are then going at the distribution
13:15:90Michele De Carli: network. Okay, as we did for the leisure. You can do that
13:21:230Michele De Carli: these days. We have a question.
13:25:50Michele De Carli: And and we have an uncompressible medium, because what happens?
13:31:760Michele De Carli: Not configurable.
13:33:720Michele De Carli: And then the 3rd point is the generation system. Okay, which I will highlight in part one.
13:42:40Michele De Carli: Okay, so this is exactly how we are going to do.
13:48:949Michele De Carli: Look okay through from here to the end of the course. So we are going 1st to look at oops.
13:59:60Michele De Carli: Then we are going to see how to distribute the water into the building weekly and
14:07:890Michele De Carli: in dynamic sleep we will see also how to control, how to model, how to modulate, how to queue the power that we need to supply to the emission systems. Okay, so how to control.
14:20:810Michele De Carli: wait or get that much, and then we are going to see how to generate the ticket.
14:26:990Michele De Carli: So the generations, okay, so we are going to do step by step. First, st initial system, then distribution system, dynamic sequence. Okay? And then how we generate
14:37:840Michele De Carli: the hitting. Okay, with the different solutions. Okay, okay.
14:45:537Michele De Carli: so this is a 2 pipes plant.
14:50:37Michele De Carli: Of course, as I told you in this case, that manually switch from
14:55:940Michele De Carli: once per at the end of one season.
14:59:500Michele De Carli: or be before the beginning of next one. Okay and in as an alternative.
15:07:970Michele De Carli: those of the village might be puri, as the as well as some other
15:14:590Michele De Carli: in the okay? Or you have, you might have the amount of heating and pulling from one day to another. Okay.
15:24:50Michele De Carli: Then you should always work with 2 policies, so that the the secret for me, Ronnie ball
15:35:400Michele De Carli: and you can. You can either select or you can either work on the terminal unit
15:43:430Michele De Carli: chill water pooling in your okay? So this is the 4 pipes plans. Okay? Which, of course, is perfect.
15:57:70Michele De Carli: And in this case you can see that you can either. You can either work with one.
16:10:00Michele De Carli: Okay. In this case you can see that you have
16:13:340Michele De Carli: a 3 way valve. So in this case, either you close one secret or the other, and of course you go back with the
16:22:678Michele De Carli: You have the return system. Okay? So I will highlight them in green, in red. They
16:31:810Michele De Carli: warm water circuit supply and in orange the warm water secret return. Okay?
16:40:760Michele De Carli: Or and in this case I will highlight with the the dark blue, the cooling
16:48:160Michele De Carli: secret. Okay? And with light blue director
16:52:930Michele De Carli: secret. Okay? So in this case, you will always this.
17:02:830Michele De Carli: Okay, usually the cooling system we will see, but usually I mean for the
17:10:236Michele De Carli: warm water secret there is not a a standard value. Usually
17:16:290Michele De Carli: there is a standard value for the cooling system, which is 7, 12. So meaning sorry that you need
17:23:920Michele De Carli: 7 degrees centigrade for the supply and 12 for the return. Okay? So
17:30:650Michele De Carli: the water, the cheap water is cool in the mix, so it's absorbing, so the water will.
17:37:400Michele De Carli: 6 temperature will be at great time
17:42:800Michele De Carli: that the chiller will cool down the water, excuse me, repeat.
17:47:640Michele De Carli: would condense them in water, air, and on.
17:53:590Michele De Carli: and not so many could be also an absorption signal. But anyway.
17:59:94Michele De Carli: okay. So in this case you can have this solution.
18:04:170Michele De Carli: or inside of this case here you might have 2 heat exchanges. Right? So you might have one thing called
18:13:330Michele De Carli: for cooling, and one thing called for heating. Of course, in this case
18:18:880Michele De Carli: you have this type of system. This is a two-way valves instead, said, you see, you look at that.
18:28:860Michele De Carli: it's well, of course you will switch on the were sync with one and either one. Okay.
18:48:420Michele De Carli: okay, so there are 2 different options. Okay? So you can use a 3 way best in order to, let's say, have
18:58:48Michele De Carli: to have one heat exchanger which can like heating or cooling, or you have 2 heat exchangers inside of the terminal unit. Okay, in this case you will
19:14:160Michele De Carli: in any case, you have also in this case who supply
19:19:720Michele De Carli: cheese, water and warm water, and to return
19:23:390Michele De Carli: one water. It's water. So 4 pipes babies are called 4 pipes, because
19:29:160Michele De Carli: you are providing your feeding pay resource. Instance, will 2 pipes, 2 separate portal to your supplyington. Okay.
19:45:250Michele De Carli: so this is the typical. I mean, from the hydraulic point of view, these are the solution.
19:52:190Michele De Carli: You just
19:58:660Michele De Carli: the 3 pipes line was used in the seventies of space return.
20:19:570Michele De Carli: Yeah, if you use, if you use one, if you use the heat pump. Okay, in this case
20:28:530Michele De Carli: you will have.
20:29:920Michele De Carli: This will be the evaporator.
20:33:870Michele De Carli: and this will be the condenser. So this is so called. The the heat recovery in Italian in English is
20:49:580Michele De Carli: no, I missed the name.
20:52:420Michele De Carli: Sorry.
20:57:410Michele De Carli: totally recovery. I don't remember. Multifunction unit could be multifunction unit. Yeah, I don't remember exactly. Anyway. Anyway, here you have a
21:07:450Michele De Carli: here, you have a a the the compressor. Okay. And here you're lamination
21:17:753Michele De Carli: and you can work with the by evaporating in the
21:37:810Michele De Carli: people, then this book that if it's when we have a meeting, everybody we have to learn.
21:51:922Michele De Carli: Yes, of course.
21:54:200Michele De Carli: Yes, of course, you have just monitoring. Yeah, in just one. Yes, but then not wait.
21:59:210Michele De Carli: Yes, you have one return in one supply, but
22:03:760Michele De Carli: you might have different circuits in the room, in the in the different rooms.
22:07:810Michele De Carli: So as we see, this is the secondary loop.
22:14:30Michele De Carli: and then we have the primary which will be disconnected.
22:19:910Michele De Carli: You be joining me.
22:21:890Michele De Carli: Period.
22:35:720Michele De Carli: Okay.
22:38:490Michele De Carli: so about the air and water system. Okay, as I told you, as we have seen, we are going to recap.
22:47:730Michele De Carli: to repeat something that I have already said, with the air. We are mainly looking at the balance to keep the relative humidity low in heating and cooling. So in summer and winter, and the water is used for the sensible law. Okay, so we need.
23:05:10Michele De Carli: But
23:07:898Michele De Carli: into size, we have a ventilation system to size. And then we have an electronic system size as we have
23:16:270Michele De Carli: ventilation and water. Okay?
23:20:560Michele De Carli: And as you can see here, we have in this case.
23:27:688Michele De Carli: In this case, you will have to provide clear and cooling to both secrets. Okay.
23:35:450Michele De Carli: the I mean the very general case.
23:40:445Michele De Carli: So we needed to provide with with the chiller that we are going to cool.
23:47:520Michele De Carli: We are going to cool the water for the
23:51:650Michele De Carli: this is a heat exchanger. Okay?
23:55:420Michele De Carli: And here we will have the coil.
23:59:920Michele De Carli: Okay.
24:01:830Michele De Carli: So with the chiller, we are going to cool both the air and humidify the air. And also we will cool down the
24:09:630Michele De Carli: terminal unit. Okay? So the chiller will provide cooling for both
24:15:540Michele De Carli: the system. Okay, you see that that
24:22:750Michele De Carli: pumps and so companies.
24:24:560Michele De Carli: This is a general scheme with the boiler.
24:28:270Michele De Carli: You could in principle work on both the
24:34:100Michele De Carli: hydronic silk and on the air. Let's say that today, with the heat recovery unit, okay, we don't.
24:43:00Michele De Carli: Good.
24:49:160Michele De Carli: But usually in. It's a usual awareness, or if it's not too cold on outside, yeah.
24:57:560Michele De Carli: Instead, we can still use the
25:01:520Michele De Carli: the heat recovery unit. So we don't need to heat up.
25:05:430Michele De Carli: That is because the buildings are very, very.
25:10:120Michele De Carli: You have the building. You have the solar
25:13:924Michele De Carli: energy. Okay? So it is better to provide air, if possible. Also in the winter, let's say in at, let's say, from 16 degrees to 20 degrees. Okay?
25:28:495Michele De Carli: Which, of course, can be reached by every company.
25:36:290Michele De Carli: But if we say that we have 60% of our 80% growth
25:45:380Michele De Carli: heat recovery efficiency, okay, you can have 16 degrees at the end.
25:51:350Michele De Carli: It's entering the rooms. Yes.
25:57:720Michele De Carli: any any kind of activity, any kind of
26:15:210Michele De Carli: there you go.
26:20:660Michele De Carli: This.
26:26:670Michele De Carli: He's the over achieving dog.
26:30:600Michele De Carli: No, I mean no.
26:35:420Michele De Carli: But I mean today you should need.
26:41:650Michele De Carli: Okay, so this is okay.
26:47:364Michele De Carli: more or less, the general scheme. Okay, the overall philosophy of the tool
26:53:40Michele De Carli: systems. Now, okay, let's have a look at the I told you
27:08:50Michele De Carli: so. This is the general scheme for the for the.
27:12:980Michele De Carli: as I told you, we are going to talk. Just
27:18:440Michele De Carli: mention the same to make it.
27:21:440Michele De Carli: And with you, okay to this systems here, the high temperature radiance systems. Okay? Which where
27:32:80Michele De Carli: use a lot of the past session oops.
27:35:850Michele De Carli: But today they are, let's say, they are not used so much in Europe.
27:42:970Michele De Carli: No, in the EU 27, okay, plus Norway plus
27:51:880Michele De Carli: Uk and and Switzerland. Okay? Because of the the limitations to no function. Futurism.
28:06:290Michele De Carli: What? How did what was the principle of this high temperature?
28:13:500Michele De Carli: Okay. But still, as I told you, they're very much used in in Middle East, in
28:20:880Michele De Carli: in the poor Soviet countries of Maya, and so on.
28:26:416Michele De Carli: So basically, the radiance system are working with the
28:35:170Michele De Carli: with by means of infrare recognition.
28:39:90Michele De Carli: Actually, as we will see when we talk about low temperature heating system as ceiling or floor. Right? There is also convection. Okay? But let's say, let's
28:51:90Michele De Carli: let let's
28:54:150Michele De Carli: consider just the infrared okay, so here, you see, which is the I mean you. You know very well the rule of the infrared radiation. You know that it works with the
29:08:770Michele De Carli: 4th so the the absolute temperature. The 4, th okay of the different of 2 surfaces. Actually, okay. So the radiative surfaces. So the
29:20:670Michele De Carli: the source temperature, okay, the the surface temperature and the room temperature. Okay?
29:31:160Michele De Carli: Of course, if we increase the temperature. So if we go from, let's say.
29:39:420Michele De Carli: room temperature to very high temperatures.
29:42:680Michele De Carli: of course you can see that the specific power which can be delivered by surface will improve.
29:52:630Michele De Carli: If you have a warning from
29:55:640Michele De Carli: 30 degrees to 100 degrees. Okay, you have what you're you're switching from.
30:02:216Michele De Carli: Let's say 14. If you reach 200 degrees you will have even 2 kilowatts per minute, which is about.
30:14:410Michele De Carli: of course, if you place this system on top of your head. Okay, that's your baby, right?
30:26:740Michele De Carli: So you could limit the space at emission surface, or you can have a reduction of the surface. So that means that you have.
30:39:240Michele De Carli: Good evening.
30:42:800Michele De Carli: He thinks, yeah, which stand the leader.
30:47:50Michele De Carli: A lot of specific Tokyo. That's very.
30:50:300Michele De Carli: It's right.
30:52:761Michele De Carli: So just to make rough estimation, we said that we
30:58:420Michele De Carli: imagine that we have a Dv, let's consider that we have just.
31:05:720Michele De Carli: hey, the the 5 surfaces not considered a heat guide.
31:13:630Michele De Carli: Let's suppose that we have a user as we had in the past of, let's say, 0 point 8. Once
31:21:754Michele De Carli: imagine that we have 100 meter by 106 meters high.
31:32:410Michele De Carli: Or it's 8 years. So we have 10,000 screen leaders
31:39:970Michele De Carli: and 8 meter size. So 8,000 meters.
31:45:800Michele De Carli: Okay?
31:47:710Michele De Carli: Done.
31:51:890Michele De Carli: So let's let's do it with small.
31:55:740Michele De Carli: 15 times 2,500. Okay?
32:06:330Michele De Carli: And that in this case we have.
32:09:130Michele De Carli: The roof is 2,500 m². You have the walls, which are
32:15:470Michele De Carli: 50 times 8 for this right?
32:22:910Michele De Carli: Right the surface. So we have 4 surfaces with 400 m².
32:29:450Michele De Carli: Okay.
32:34:510Michele De Carli: that poor surface at 400 square impressed.
32:41:340Michele De Carli: which means 1,600 meters, plus
32:48:130Michele De Carli: 202,500
32:54:640Michele De Carli: coming up, 4,000
32:56:900Michele De Carli: new value of 0 point 8. Let's suppose that we have 25. 0, okay, in the, in, the, in industrial dealings, we need them.
33:09:590Michele De Carli: not 20, but 60 degrees C. Because we are standing, we have life.
33:16:330Michele De Carli: We are working with the mentor.
33:19:230Michele De Carli: So it's 1.4 instead of 1.2, the clone will be 1.5 instead of one. Okay? So that you today
33:29:30Michele De Carli: increase of the metabolic rate and due to the increase in the clothing resistance, we can lower the temperature. So instead of 20 degrees, we can have comfort at 60 degrees. Okay, so in this case we will have
33:45:610Michele De Carli: 402,100 times is the surface the new value, which is 0 point 8
33:55:730Michele De Carli: times 16 minus so 21. And do you have a now can we do that?
34:13:492Michele De Carli: I can see there went to no.
34:18:739Michele De Carli: So 6,000. Whoa!
34:27:630Michele De Carli: Echo. Okay.
34:31:250Michele De Carli: 70,000.
34:32:920Michele De Carli: Second, modest.
34:34:710Michele De Carli: Okay. 70 kilos with a heat source
34:39:670Michele De Carli: surface at 200 degrees C means that we need just 35 m²,
34:52:280Michele De Carli: over 2,500 m² of surface.
34:57:320Michele De Carli: Okay? So you can consider that in the roof. Okay, you will have 35, and
35:07:300Michele De Carli: 35, divided by
35:10:710Michele De Carli: 35, divided by 2,500 means that 1.4% of your surface is heated by this.
35:22:920Michele De Carli: Here's just 1, 2%. Okay, let's say of your city service. Okay, do we not tell me
35:35:140Michele De Carli: for you?
35:36:710Michele De Carli: Okay.
35:38:40Michele De Carli: And so they are.
35:46:500Michele De Carli: They have some point. One is that they are with the time, with with the small surfaces. You can deliver help.
35:55:670Michele De Carli: Okay.
35:58:620Michele De Carli: but you need 70 kilowatts. Okay? So I mean, it's not that you are. But it's I mean, you. You can really use, let's say very dense
36:08:970Michele De Carli: heat. So
36:16:598Michele De Carli: how can we do that?
36:19:360Michele De Carli: Well, of course, if you use 200 degrees, you, Johnson?
36:26:868Michele De Carli: Yes, if you use all that degrees
36:30:910Michele De Carli: you have to divide by 600. Okay? So in that case, 70,000 by 70,000,
36:38:660Michele De Carli: divided by 600 is 120 cm. Okay?
36:45:400Michele De Carli: And which is, of course, a little bit more.
36:49:180Michele De Carli: How can you do that? Well, one possibility is to use what order seen as credit
36:58:550Michele De Carli: in the range of that, of course, the greater the temperature, the smaller will be, the surface seems frozen
37:09:390Michele De Carli: of the infrared heat. Exchanger room. Okay?
37:16:560Michele De Carli: So these are, how many times have you been in M. 9, M. 9 and M. 10.
37:22:730Michele De Carli: Did anyone never enter in M. 9 or M. 10.
37:29:470Michele De Carli: But you can open the door, and you can enter in one way.
37:32:590Michele De Carli: So if you go, you will see this system here. Okay, so this instance, we have produced the water. The superintive water was produced by the district network that we have.
37:46:550Michele De Carli: you know. Okay, so on the other side of the river, there was water at Andrea.
37:55:30Michele De Carli: Okay?
37:56:140Michele De Carli: And in that case this is
38:02:170Michele De Carli: so, you could use this system with a portal.
38:06:140Michele De Carli: And of course, top of your tag. Okay?
38:12:990Michele De Carli: But you can with the. So with the water, we work at this levels of temperature.
38:19:210Michele De Carli: Okay?
38:20:190Michele De Carli: So in the seventies
38:25:850Michele De Carli: to why don't we use directly the combustion fumes. Okay, to to irrigate.
38:42:590Michele De Carli: Alright? Good.
38:45:270Michele De Carli: Okay.
38:47:70Michele De Carli: Anybody, it seems. Okay.
38:52:01Michele De Carli: In this case you can have
38:55:310Michele De Carli: more complex solution. You can- you can go
38:59:960Michele De Carli: then 300. Okay, 300 degrees. Okay, so you can pick up with a limited amount of
39:10:860Michele De Carli: comfort solution.
39:12:940Michele De Carli: Of course, you need to have the system
39:17:110Michele De Carli: under pressure in order not to have the fuse inside of the the room. Okay. So if you are providing, sorry if you are, if you're if you're fine.
39:29:380Michele De Carli: If you have the combustion chamber here, and then the fan is on the
39:34:750Michele De Carli: exhaust. Okay, then all the pipe. Okay, all the fumes will go on above your roof. Okay.
39:47:850Michele De Carli: your system will be under pressure. So that means that if you have any leakage
39:54:490Michele De Carli: there of the room will enter in. Okay, and in the fuse and not vice versa, the fuse or not.
40:00:840Michele De Carli: Thanks.
40:02:545Michele De Carli: Experiences. Okay, so you have integration over here.
40:10:970Michele De Carli: Okay. So it was possible to hit the the rooms with the systems
40:17:99Michele De Carli: with a length from 5 to 15 meters.
40:23:820Michele De Carli: Look it on from the
40:30:170Michele De Carli: of course, the taller the building and the greater the change rate that you have the better the solution. Because in that case, if you pay.
40:44:310Michele De Carli: I've actually drink or semi open semi open
40:50:57Michele De Carli: areas. Okay, you can hit the the room in a more efficient way rather than heating up the air, which is right
40:57:810Michele De Carli: exchange rate to the exchange rate.
41:01:326Michele De Carli: There was a second generation in the nineties of this system.
41:08:190Michele De Carli: They could resequently use 2 this way. They could increase the exchange area
41:22:810Michele De Carli: providing a a, let's say, a more distributed comfort zone. Because, of course, in this case, you have
41:30:750Michele De Carli: like, spotage, these systems are not used anymore, because
41:41:500Michele De Carli: that's 1,000 flat. This is 13 year
41:46:171Michele De Carli: or 13 years ago we started to promote those in
41:52:70Michele De Carli: or to oblige to have renewable energy on site. Okay for heating, cooling. Of course, if you use
42:03:540Michele De Carli: okay,
42:05:510Michele De Carli: this cannot be used anymore. Anyway, I have to say that one very positive point of this solution was that in this case
42:15:950Michele De Carli: heat up with a varying, let's say
42:22:803Michele De Carli: in an elastic way. Let's say in a in a modular way, okay, the the the rooms. Okay? And when you have industrial sites, you might have places where you might store based on some stuff
42:39:131Michele De Carli: so you could add, you could have some spot heating just where it was needed. Okay, so, but anyway, so this were interesting solution at that time.
42:54:97Michele De Carli: Of course, you could go even
42:59:997Michele De Carli: in this case you might usually use usually steel combustion, or you could use even electric.
43:08:420Michele De Carli: This is okay. Let me hide that, too.
43:11:220Michele De Carli: So in this case they are suitable. For instance, when you have to heat up just localized
43:16:950Michele De Carli: base. Okay, where you have like in an industrial zone, you. Just
43:25:880Michele De Carli: so you, when you want to do it, the spot heating, you can use it, even though. Yeah, I mean
43:34:715Michele De Carli: looking at overall energy that you should spare with any kind of system.
43:43:60Michele De Carli: Of course there will be. Also, there are also some outdoor condition. Okay, when you go outside in the wintertime, and you just present.
43:58:643Michele De Carli: Okay, and then
44:03:980Michele De Carli: I'll talk about that so much. But let's say that.
44:09:589Michele De Carli: As I told you.
44:12:435Michele De Carli: The expansion with that subscription units
44:17:282Michele De Carli: systems which are similar to your air conditioning unit that you have in your in your house.
44:24:330Michele De Carli: Of course, when you have to install the, it's just a
44:28:440Michele De Carli: don't need any particular design. Okay, so here you are not necessary.
44:35:460Michele De Carli: But we have solutions which more complicated than the special
44:43:145Michele De Carli: case. Okay cases. In these cases, we have the so called variable refrigerant volume or variable refrigerant with these are called Vrv or Vrf, okay.
44:59:270Michele De Carli: what are they? They are.
45:02:996Michele De Carli: Let's say, more complicated.
45:06:80Michele De Carli: Okay, always work with it. With the reference
45:14:970Michele De Carli: to have a a reversible sorry, of course, bigger.
45:24:670Michele De Carli: progressive unit that you have on. Okay, because the power will increase. And in that case you can see that you will
45:33:680Michele De Carli: very cool the different rooms of your building.
45:39:40Michele De Carli: By, let's say, working with the the by, condensing or evaporating the
45:46:692Michele De Carli: representative with the Directory in the rooms. Okay?
45:54:747Michele De Carli: Pros and cons.
45:57:808Michele De Carli: The process that you could even do part of this as
46:06:250Michele De Carli: and for conversation and part for the information
46:17:376Michele De Carli: the positive point is that they are cheap. They are not.
46:22:120Michele De Carli: they are very easy to design. So for sign this.
46:29:820Michele De Carli: not even comparable in the time that you understand.
46:35:400Michele De Carli: Okay.
46:37:581Michele De Carli: of course, by working with the phase, change into the rules. That means that the flow rates of your refrigerator will be smaller than the, so the pipes are usually
46:52:780Michele De Carli: more than what the types for the electronic circuits.
46:59:978Michele De Carli: But of course you have to think about that. You have the refrigerant inside of the meeting, and, as you know, due to the
47:10:115Michele De Carli: into the rules
47:14:930Michele De Carli: for limiting the Gwp of a global woman potential, Teresa and Lewis.
47:23:596Michele De Carli: We need to move to, let's say, either, let's say,
47:28:130Michele De Carli: new mixers, okay, or to natural fluids. Natural fluids.
47:32:790Michele De Carli: Okay, they can explore. And so
47:35:670Michele De Carli: this is something that you have to think about, either largely refundable or
47:43:70Michele De Carli: or even okay. So that is a certain risk to install this so far up to date. But I think that in the future okay, that is not really
47:58:740Michele De Carli: that that could be covered. Yes.
48:06:990Michele De Carli: oops organization uses still. Still, if you for residential uses, usually you can have something similar.
48:23:280Michele De Carli: cheaper solution and instant solution.
48:26:140Michele De Carli: This information we need to have.
48:42:695Michele De Carli: Okay.
48:43:400Michele De Carli: But then in the ring you happen in the damage.
48:50:310Michele De Carli: The I mean it, I mean the
49:00:536Michele De Carli: yes, but it's all integrated in one solution. But we have one which is working on the water
49:08:860Michele De Carli: meter and a status function here for that extension inside. Okay?
49:16:840Michele De Carli: So all the let's say, far East companies
49:24:190Michele De Carli: who are which are more market oriented. These solutions. They provide this heat pumps. Okay? Which can be for flat. Okay, which can work the water system. And
49:43:310Michele De Carli: so this is really the cheapest solution that you can find.
49:48:390Michele De Carli: Okay.
49:52:941Michele De Carli: yeah, I mean, but what we are looking here. What we are seeing is a large bunch of locations. Okay, yeah.
50:04:890Michele De Carli: Okay. Anyway.
50:08:330Michele De Carli: of course you have to. You have to. I have to remark that this solution is the most okay. They are they more than 50% of the market. Okay for large applications. Okay, with respect to the
50:30:750Michele De Carli: okay.
50:31:920Michele De Carli: But hydraulic system. Okay, is the best solution. Okay? Because when you install this system.
50:43:330Michele De Carli: you don't know, you have no idea. Okay. So if there is a problem you have to fulfill. Okay, you have to
50:51:220Michele De Carli: trust in what the producer made. Okay, so you are fully linked with the producer. And you're you have no way to.
50:59:700Michele De Carli: If there is a problem with any person.
51:05:200Michele De Carli: In any case you would go to the, to the producer of the heat pump or a conditioning. But let's say that you're extremely linked to the, to the solution, and to the to the to the
51:17:540Michele De Carli: the companies which are produced instead.
51:21:610Michele De Carli: And you don't know exactly how this system work. Okay, while with the electronic system, you should know how. So. Of course, it costs more from the design point of view. But then you have also.
51:35:580Michele De Carli: okay, a better, you can handle. You should handle better the program.
51:40:670Michele De Carli: Okay?
51:41:950Michele De Carli: And okay,
51:55:770Michele De Carli: okay, we can start talking about that. Okay? So what about the water based solution? Okay, so since we are more interested in. So I just mentioned them, okay?
52:09:129Michele De Carli: There is not so much to say from the
52:12:350Michele De Carli: design point of view. Okay, so from as a designer, I mean the. The. The use of this solution is, I mean, quite simple, of course. I am interested that you know how to design and
52:27:950Michele De Carli: and to know the to have know how on the hydronic systems. Okay, so that is why we are mainly working or manifest the water based solution. Okay, so when we talk about water based solution, hydraulic solution. As we said, we can either work with the opening.
52:51:510Michele De Carli: It's on a ventilation system.
52:54:770Michele De Carli: So
52:58:120Michele De Carli: what should we? How can we work? I told you in heating, we can work with any temperature. Okay? So
53:08:300Michele De Carli: looking in the going back to the past, okay,
53:16:99Michele De Carli: decades ago, we worked with high temperature at 90 degrees. Okay, so doing that
53:26:30Michele De Carli: up to the seventies, okay.
53:29:150Michele De Carli: the heating systems, we're working with the supply temperature on the radiators. Basically, this kind of system, even though there are.
53:40:400Michele De Carli: see?
53:41:430Michele De Carli: But they said that 95, 99% of existing buildings, okay, or buildings made in the past, they are
53:52:170Michele De Carli: all over.
53:57:800Michele De Carli: In this case, when you work with creators, you work with hyperlinks, then
54:08:70Michele De Carli: in the nineties. Okay. There was the introduction on this boiler low temperature or condensed boilers. Okay, so what are these solutions?
54:21:920Michele De Carli: The solution are boilers right? So, looking at the the
54:29:828Michele De Carli: fumes to water heat exchange. Looking at the the pasture of chopping heat, exchanger of the fumes there
54:43:300Michele De Carli: the
54:47:530Michele De Carli: like. A normal iron right so you had to avoid at that time the conversation of the of the natural gas, because
55:00:270Michele De Carli: compared to those programs by introducing let's say
55:25:80Michele De Carli: to you.
55:28:450Michele De Carli: it was possible to reduce the temperature of the fumes. Okay? Which means that you could have some condensation. And of course, by
55:39:450Michele De Carli: by lowering the temperature, and by also.
55:44:280Michele De Carli: Now, next session, you could. You could.
55:50:760Michele De Carli: you could have a greater.
55:59:460Michele De Carli: consider the same amount of fuel that you are. You are burning. Okay?
56:06:246Michele De Carli: So that means that it was possible at that time to reduce, let's say, from 90,
56:14:480Michele De Carli: say in the seventies, eighties. Still, it was possible to work at, let's say, 80 degrees and supply temperature. But let's say, from the nineties, it was possible to reduce to 60 or even 50 degrees the supply temperature of.
56:29:840Michele De Carli: And of course, today, 10 years ago. The the possibility to even lower everything rules.
56:44:830Michele De Carli: say the the the diffusion of heat or radiant
56:52:60Michele De Carli: bigger blocks from the floor heating systems, and also by
56:58:950Michele De Carli: working more with the hip hops, then 10 years, but
57:06:930Michele De Carli: allowed to work at even lower temperatures. Okay, so basically, this is
57:18:460Michele De Carli: roughly, they subdivide the systems supply.
57:29:210Michele De Carli: Okay? So you can consider. Let's say it's not that.
57:34:650Michele De Carli: I mean, it's just a a way. Okay. So to subdivide. Okay? So
57:41:840Michele De Carli: there is not a clear, let's say definition. Okay. But we can say that usually
57:48:30Michele De Carli: not at all. I better extreme
57:51:664Michele De Carli: heating. What is this heating we are considering. Radiators working or running oops.
58:04:685Michele De Carli: Right?
58:06:50Michele De Carli: Oh, so in the regular round, about 20 degrees, as temperature difference between supply and meter.
58:14:360Michele De Carli: or entering worker and outgoing one
58:18:290Michele De Carli: so high temperature is water at, let's say, 90 degrees.
58:23:450Michele De Carli: Yeah, when we talk about medium temperature, we talk about
58:29:70Michele De Carli: something between 50 and 60 degrees. Okay, so let's say, on average, 55 degrees as supply temperature.
58:38:270Michele De Carli: And then we can talk about low temperature systems.
58:44:597Michele De Carli: When we have temperatures at 45 degrees.
58:49:90Michele De Carli: and we talk about very low temperatures when we
58:52:590Michele De Carli: work maximum of 35 degrees and supply time, and we will see that we are able to provide heating, and you will see. You will see also, with the by working the excel sheet that you will work
59:05:10Michele De Carli: on for the design of the radium floor. Okay, that you can work with this. Of course, when we work with these systems here, with the units
59:15:290Michele De Carli: which are similar to the ones in Cthulhu. They are. They're exactly the same solution. Okay? But one is here and the other one is on top of your head.
59:24:130Michele De Carli: So usually the supply temperature for heating for these systems is 45. Okay? But you can even work at 35. And I can tell you that you can even run today.
59:36:483Michele De Carli: You can heat up rooms at supply temperature of maximum 24 degrees. Okay? As you will see.
59:46:190Michele De Carli: you will trust me. Okay, you you will touch with your hand, and on the 2 you will see that it is possible to work at 2025 bucks. Okay?
59:57:880Michele De Carli: And of course, imagine if you can condense at 25 degrees instead of condensing it.
00:05:920Michele De Carli: 45. It's not condensation temperature right now, because we have 5 degrees more. Okay? So when we work with 25 degrees of supply temperature. It means that we condense at 30 degrees, more or less. Okay, when we have supply temperature at 45 degrees, we have a condensation temperature of 50 degrees. Okay. So imagine by having a certain source, what
00:31:160Michele De Carli: means to work either with 30 degrees of conversation or 50 degrees of conversation.
00:36:850Michele De Carli: Okay, how the cop will okay be great.
00:43:290Michele De Carli: That is why also, 80 pounds have been diffused in the market so far because of the low temperature
00:52:360Michele De Carli: initial systems, and also, thanks to the
00:56:770Michele De Carli: split system units because people they installed more and more air conditioning system which could work also, I see pump in there.
01:05:60Michele De Carli: even though they working that much with 8 bank. But let's say the
01:10:450Michele De Carli: it was a mix of these 2, a combination of these 2.
01:17:200Michele De Carli: Yes.
01:25:590Michele De Carli: you know, usually you through the system. You have nothing
01:31:400Michele De Carli: you can install. Now heat pumps, or instead of the electric boiler we pump on her
01:40:00Michele De Carli: the actual borrower working with the hip instead of the
01:44:400Michele De Carli: or you can install what they told you. You can install welcome by system which is outside your house, where you have the
01:53:810Michele De Carli: system which is working hydronically on
01:58:350Michele De Carli: the radiant floor and the hot water.
02:02:470Michele De Carli: And in summer it works just as a split system.
02:08:260Michele De Carli: Okay, I have to go. Your colleagues are going to finish today, some of them not all of you.
02:16:803Michele De Carli: So we meet it tomorrow at 2, 30. Okay. See you tomorrow.